Please Understand Why I Do What I Do.
I’ve had a lot of traffic here these last few days. So I feel a restating of why I am doing this may be in order. As an atheist, complete and utter, I am willing to argue my points to anyone willing to argue theirs. This is how ideas are spread. This is how truth moves forward. I believe the Bible was one of humanity’s early attempts to explain the world around them. Not understanding the nature of their world or their origin, humankind has always turned to myth, and some of these are wonderful with much beauty, but many have beauty mixed with cruelty, while others are simply squalid and mean. Taken as allegories these stories tell us about what early people were like, so consequently, they show us things about ourselves, mainly where we have grown and where we have not. This is crucial to understanding our species, our civilization and our history. There are other myths that have fulfilled similar roles. When you read Homer, some parts ring true such as the death of Patroclus. Other chapters fill us with a kind of horror, like the slaughter by Achilles of hundreds, or the dragging of Hector’s corpse. There is both beauty and ugliness here, and much we can learn. But nobody alive swears that Homer wrote the literal truth and that everything he said should be taken as absolute fact.
Therefore, my problem is not with general run-of-the-mill Christianity but with their literalist cousins. Young Earth Creationists solemnly believe the infallibility of their particular bronze age novel. They believe this above fact, above evidence, above sense. This pseudo-luddite trash must be exposed. If you do not understand why, please read my Young Earth Creationism, a Rant. I find the best way to fight literalism is to crawl inside their own stories as if they really were literal, and poke at all the absurdities. I will use humor or irony or sarcasm or anything I can find to drag these beliefs into the sunlight and show the world what they actually are. The only thing I will not knowingly use is a lie. This may hurt some feelings, and I apologize in advance, but I think the survival of our civilization depends on science winning this battle. We cannot succumb to total superstition. There are too many dangers ahead, and the YEC’s continue to gain in strength.
I will continue with every truthful weapon at my disposal. It’s too important.
I’ve really enjoyed your writing, and I hope you get through Leviticus without having an aneurysm.
Job is quite fun; I look forward to that. Song of Solomon always gets me hot.
Are you going to do the Apocrypha?
Alice
I planned on doing them all, but the version I am using doesn’t contain the Apocrypha. i may just do those few after the rest. God knows(pun intended) how long it will take. But I appreciate your support.
Stefan.
These discussions are always about finding truth. As long as you don’t mind the bumps, you are welcome to come along for the ride.
So, is this strictly about science and creationism? Or are you willing to discuss other issues as well? If you are, I would just like to say that I have chosen a life of belief in something I cannot completely explain or defend. I am very interested in truth, however. I’m not sure how it spreads or if truth spreads or if it just is. Cormac Mccarthy says in No Country for Old Men, “I think that when the lies are told and forgot the Truth will be there yet. It (truth) don’t move about from place to place and it don’t change from time to time. You can’t corrupt it any more than you can salt salt. You can’t corrupt it because it is what it is. So, if this is an open conversation about truth and so on, I would love to participate.
stefen
The anonymous one is me, not sure why it did that??
whoops..
Curious. What made you decide that there is no possibility of a creator? I an agnostic theist. I lean towards the existence of a creator because I find it hard to believe that higher forms of animals could exist without having all the following simultaneously: Digestion, Elimination, Circulation, Respiration, a flap to stop food from going into our lungs and Reproduction. We could have everything but reproduction, but the animal would eventually die and this chance occurrence of all the above required systems would have again occur. To me, the odds are astronomical that this could happen even once. I understand that evolution occurred gradually over time, but this doesn’t explain how a higher form of animal could survive without having all the above mentioned systems occur simultaneously.
BTW I consider myself an agnostic theist because, theism is my belief, but philosophically I cannot prove the existence of a creator. On the other hand, the NONexistence of a creator cannot be proven either. So, unless you admit to being an agnostic atheist, you would have to be basing your belief on FAITH alone.
Wayne D
Is there a creator? The burden of proof must lie with the person making the positive claim. If someone thinks that placing leaches on someone’s left butt cheek cures them of cancer, then the burden of proof lies with the claimant. It is not up to the rest of the world to prove every fantastic claim wrong. As you know, It is very difficult to prove a negative. One can always keep moving the argument slightly in an attempt to invalidate the theories falsification; maybe it’s the right butt cheek; maybe the left arm.
God used to get the credit for everything. Lightning was a god’s anger. Rain, a gift, The sun, the moon, the stars, earthquakes, gravity, was all attributed to direct divine intervention As more scientific evidence has come out through the ages, God has been shoved further into the darkness. As we understand how the world works, we need god less as an explanation, and I firmly believe we are now at a point where we can throw him out all together.
To say I can’t prove that there is not even the slightest of possibility of a creator is true. I also can’t prove to you the world isn’t secretly run by an evil cadre of vampire elves. I can’t prove that bigfoot isn’t able to slip in and out of the prime material plane at will and may be watching me type this. I can’t prove that our entire world isn’t some experiment in virtual reality run by a vastly intelligent algae species. It is up to a theist to prove God does exist in a provable repeatable study.
That some idea of a creator couldn’t be constructed to fit the evidence isn’t relative. What is the issue here is the logical inconsistency that he must be like what the biblical literalists claim. That is the aspect of the discussion this blog centers on. Let’s assume there is a creator. There is a vast gulf between a “first cause” creator and Yahweh of the old testament. Just because you may be able to take a single step towards theism, you cannot just leap the light years forward to a reality containing Jehovah. That argument breaks down rapidly the more literally the Bible is taken.
Your lack of understanding of evolution betrays you as more of a theist than you claim. You need to at least understand what we evolutionists actually say before arguing this point. Nothing of what you have claimed about evolution is anything like what modern evolutionists teach. Not even in the same ballpark. In fact, it doesn’t even appear we are playing the same sport.
“I can’t prove that bigfoot isn’t able to slip in and out of the prime material plane at will and may be watching me type this.”
Uh, I think Bigfoot was in Moridor’s box, opened and the beast imprisoned in the Alley of Dangerous Angles, in Sigil. Thus your worries are over, unless your playing Planescape: Torment again, and let Bigfoot loose without slaying it. Even then it would have to find a key and a portal to escape to the Prime Material planes.
As a nonbeliever who has never been interested in reading the bible, I do like to read your very in-depth readings and commentary. Please, for the sake of lazy bastidges like me, keep up the great work.
Thanks. I’m certainly trying. In Fact, I am on my coffee break right now typing this and my next post on an ipod touch, a remarkable device but not one constructed with my chubby sausage fingers in mind. Damn you Steve Jobs, damn you to Yahweh’s hell!
Anyway, thanks for the compliment.
Could this site turn into a gathering place of FreeStyle dsosuisicns and information? If so, how do we make that happen? Should we find information from p-net, solo-tripping and facebook and re-post it here? How should information be organized and categorized? What are your thoughts?
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As typically atheistic as this will sound, a single read-through of Richard Dawkins’ “The Blind Watchmaker” will answer your questions.
“Digestion, Elimination, Circulation, Respiration, a flap to stop food from going into our lungs and Reproduction”
You’ll find if you study evolutionary history a little that when these arose and in what order are well understood. There is certainly no need for them to have to arise all at once; it is trivial to find animals that lack one or several of the things on your list. You’re wrestling with a straw man, and science has decisively solved the problem you present.
Also, it’s sad that you have an opinion on evolution of life when you’re woefully ignorant about the work that has been done.
Also, Dawkins did a good job dissecting the terminology about athiesm, agnosticism, and theism in the first chapter or so of _The God Delusion_.
Argument from Incredulity. You really need to read some basic books on evolution, your questions have answers.
I’m thoroughly enjoying your writings.. They aren’t telling me anything I haven’t already decided for myself, however the wit that you are bringing to the table is to be applauded.
Rock on KKBundy. But, I’d also say that we need to bring the fight to the “run-of-the-mill” christians. While the literalists present an offensive danger attacking the pillars and proven theories of science, it’s the “run-of-the-mill” guys and the fence-teetering agnostics like Wayne D who repress curiosity in the world. The run-of-the-mills are the passive agressors in this war.
Wayne D, why don’t you take a seat and shut up until you can make up your mind. We don’t need mediators. -antiwasp
Most of the people who are on the front lines battling to keep the wall of separation intact, are Christians, and we US atheists better be damned grateful for their sacrifices.