God makes Pharaoh Stubborn! or a Rationale for an Ass-Kicking
Moses and Aaron
Now comes an odd part of the tale. We are at the part where Moses and Aaron try to persuade the Pharaoh into letting the Isrealites go and they are on their way to Egypt. My concern is with a theme prevalent throughout the rest of this section. Time after time, God does increasingly lethal “miracles” to force the Pharaoh into setting free the Israelites, but immediately after, he makes the Pharaoh stubborn so that they are not freed.
I know we covered this briefly last time, but I feel this is too egregious of an ethical error to pass by with so little said, so say something I will. As if anyone who has read this blog had any doubt. Let me summarize here. God performs miracles and wonders and plagues in order to persuade the Pharaoh to free the Hebrews, but at the same time, he gets into the Pharaoh’s head and stops him from actually doing it. This is one of the most serious problems the believers in a good, kind and merciful Yahweh must ignore. Maybe they can, but I certainly can’t. Good and kind are not part of the God who acts like this.
By my count,the Bible lists eight different instances where God, while trying to free the Hebrews, made the Pharaoh so obstinate that he wouldn’t let them go. Now please understand that this is not some oddball interpretation of a difficult passage. This is very bluntly stated eight separate times. In all those eight instances, God worked against his own stated aims and certainly counter to the Israelites best interests let alone any consideration for the common Egyptian. For some reason he insisted on playing both sides against the middle and everyone suffered. Suffering is a very common thread in this book.
So you can look for yourself here are the references: Exodus 4/21,7/3, 9/12 ,10/1, 10/20, 10/27, 14/4, and finally, 14/8. All of them state it differently but very directly.
To give you more of the flavor of these discrepancies and to spare you the tedium of looking them up, I’ll quote three of the most obvious. I still urge you to read the entire section for yourself, but here are the quotes that pull the hardest on my frontal lobes.
Exodus 7/3, just before the beginning of the plagues of Egypt, Yahweh says, “Yet I will make the Pharaoh so obstinate that, despite the many signs and wonders that I will work in the land of Egypt, he will not listen to you.”
Like I said, this is not subtle stuff. Here he is pushing the Egyptians to do one thing but holding them back from doing it. Ask yourself, why would this be? If you read my last post, you’ll know that I am quite certain that Yahweh was just halfheartedly trying to justify his desire to kick a little Egyptian ass. He needs the Egyptians to refuse his commands so he has an excuse to wreck some shit. He forces his will on the Pharaoh in order to merely ratchet up the stakes of the game he plays with mankind. As any reader of this blog must be quite sure of by now, there’s nothing the Lord Genocide likes better that a good game of whoop ass on anyone not listening to him, even if he has to force them not to listen. Think I’m pushing it, maybe that I’ve carried this too far? Oh, you’ll see, my pretty; you’ll see!
Exodus 10/1 is just before the eighth plague, my favorite by the way — locusts. “Go to the Pharaoh, for I have made him and his servants obdurate in order that I may perform these signs among them and that you may recount to your son and grandson how ruthlessly I dealt with the Egyptians and what signs I wrought among them, so that you may know that I am the lord.”
Hard to be more blunt about your aims, don’t you think? God has hardened the Pharaoh’s heart in order that he may have an excuse to break the Egyptians and prove he is God. Would this not fit securely into the very idea of “might equals right”? Remember, this only one plague before the slaying of the hundred thousand or so Egyptian firstborn. These are the stakes of the game he’s playing. Does he steal the Pharaoh’s free will so he can rationalize the killing of Egyptian children? Is this the god of love? Can anyone please tell me how?
Could there be a better way to prove that he is “Lord”? Absolutely! Any way, in fact. Is dealing ruthlessly with a people so far below your level of power really a virtue for an omnipotent and perfectly just being? I have to say no! Like so many other misconstrued passages in the Bible, justice has little to do with the actions of this God. For centuries, Christians have dressed Yahweh in yet another version of the emperor’s new clothes, arranging and rearranging gossamer and weightless arguments trying to convince themselves that their god is really good and just and right when their own literature proves otherwise. It’s going to take us, the skeptics, to bluntly state the truth. Dude! That bitch is naked! When looked at with any degree of skepticism, the entire system must eventually collapse. This isn’t brain surgery people. Although, now that I think of it, that may actually help.
But I digress. Further proving my case is Exodus 14/7. This is immediately before the Egyptian armies pursue the Israelites to their fateful end. God says:”This I will make the Pharaoh so obstinate that he will pursue them. Then I will receive the glory through Pharaoh and all his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am the Lord.”
So he forces the Egyptians into a rage to follow the Hebrews in order to do more of his amazing wonders. These are the wonders in which he kills the entire Egyptian army. The Egyptians are forced by God to make decisions that doom them, then God gathers in the glory for this act of, dare I say, genocide. Was this necessary? Now I’m not saying the Egyptians didn’t deserve a little slapping around, slavery is horrid after all, but the Pharaoh had already let the Hebrews go. Isn’t that what God wanted? But he still makes them pursue the Israelites just so he has a reason to slaughter them. WTF?
I’m not saying that war is always avoidable. There are times when the sides are close to equal that a case could be made for a justified war, but when the sides are as uneven as complete omnipotence against mere mortal, justification becomes impossible. With humanity, sometimes a fight needs to be fought, there is no other choice, but we do not have divine powers. We are only human after all, flawed imperfect and weak. I simply cannot perceive of an omnipotent divinity forcing a people to behave badly in order to crush them just as an example to the rest of the world. This is a moral atrocity. This is evil!
By any modern and rational standard, this type of behavior is abhorrent. Is it not reminiscent of Hitler or Stalin or the forces of the Empire of Japan creating little “incidents” in neighboring countries in order to have a rationale for war? This sounds human for sure, but do these actions sound like those done by a perfect being made of pure love, as I just heard it stated at a recent funeral? Not to me. I’m quite sure love is the wrong word. Lust, maybe. A lust for power and domination and destruction fits well here, not love. Never confuse the two.
Is God playing tug of war with himself, stretching the Hebrews and the Pharaoh until one of them breaks? Is he having fun? This may have seemed like justice back when a great form of public entertainment was watching some poor bastard get impaled on the mere whim of a king, but morality has moved on in the intervening centuries. Our moral zeitgeist has shifted to a point far beyond this one. Why do we accept a god who still carries this mindset so proudly? He’s not God. He’s the Godfather. “I’ll show him an offer he can’t refuse… But then I’ll make him refuse it anyway!”
I’ve said it before and I’m sure I’ll say it again. Why does people worship beings that do so little for us? The truth is that we deserve a better god. Why must we always accept less? As a species, we need to learn that when someone hands us shit, we have the option of just throwing it away. We are not required to wallow in it for all eternity.
Happy Easter!
Atheists
GET OUT OF MY UNIVERSE…
you little liars do nothing but antagonize…
and you try to eliminate all the dreams and hopes of humanity…
but you LOST…
THE DEATH OF ATH*ISM – SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF GOD
http://engforum.pravda.ru/showthread.php?t=280780
Einstein puts the final nail in the coffin of atheism…
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atheists deny their own life element…
LIGHT OR DEATH, ATHEISTS?
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***************************LIGHT*********
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I would happily get out of your universe, if by that you mean that fantasy one you’ve made up to help you make it through the day. I’ve never really cared for that universe where evil is good, hate is love, black is white, and a devil is the resident god. My universe is called reality and in it there are no Genocidal Prince of Peaces or Gods of Love who relish in the torture of humanity. Or astrology. Or Alchemy. Or (add your own particular brand of nonsense here). You should visit sometime, but please, wipe your feet at the door. I hate having shit tracked across my floor.
I noticed you didn’t try to refute what was actually said. Again and again, you avoid the messy details which you base your belief system on and just use blanket denials. I know thinking actually hurts when done for the first time, but believe me, there are benefits. Read the book. Study the monster you so blindly adore. Happy Easter!
Oh and, I love how you accuse me of destroying the hopes and dreams of humanity when it’s your fundamentalism that condemn 90% of all people to an eternal hell. Nice dodging. With great power comes no responsibility. Wait… Damn, that doesn’t sound right.
The Blessed Atheist, God-free since ’93.
Followed dmabus’ links, mostly out of boredom. Couple of interesting articles about relativity, but strangely no mention of god in any of them, and the truly enlightening “atheists caused 911″ statement. Then there’s the pages devoted to the works of Nostradamus, which destroys any shred of credibility he may have been clinging to. Safe to say, this guy is nuts and it would be best to ignore him until he goes away.
Although I have to say, his cry of “lamb power!!!” in the forums amuses me greatly, and I’m adopting it as my battle cry.
dmabus,
If the truth offends you, why bother reading it?
That one dude puts that Einstein quote everywhere. I see you have trolls already, congrats. Sam Harris mentions the Einstein quote in one of these http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmtbZ9n6fqc&feature=related
Great work, the best way to debunk xtians is with their own words. Keep it up.
Kriss
At least when the bible was concocted, the religious were literate.
I have asked this question about how he hardened their hearts and have never got a good answer. The people I have asked seem to have never really noticed the conflict in these verses.
Jeebus, I feel like Mabus (real name Dennis Markuze) is stalking me — seems like he’s dropping his turds on every non-Godbother site I read lately. Don’t bother to try to engage him, he’ll mostly just spam your site with the same post he did on this entry over and over again, perhaps with slight edits. He’s convinced (among other things) that the JREF owes him their million-dollar prize for proving the supernatural exists.
Blimey, I’ve caught up! Great job so far, KK. I shall definitely be following this.
My dyslexia helped me decipher an anagram:
dmabus -> dumbas(s)
Hey
Really glad to get into this forum
It’s what I am looking for.
Hope to know more member here.
Hello I myself am a christians and ive been reading a few things that have been in this web site and it truly surprises how ignorant and immature we can be when it comes to religion. You guys mainly dont believe in God cuz u cant see him but now i ask you how can u believe in air if you cant see it?? maybe its cuz we can feel it the same way we can feel jesus in our own life. If you notice most of the stories that have happened in the bible are happening now in days in our time capsule. you questioned how can pharaoh have changed his mind so many times if jesus had done alot of miracles we have to remember he as well was a human and stubborn and as us make mistakes just like those people who kill and steal they know that what they are doing is worng but they still do it anyways until the consequence from God falls down on them like it did to pharaoh and his people. I dont understand why you guys love to pick and try to find in the bible things that dont make sense and yet let the stupid idea of evolution slide by of how we were created by monkeys. If that was true what happened with the rest of the monkeys in the world they wanted to stay as monkeys???? yeah i doubt it people now in days woory about the things that they shouldnt. Us christians dont live in a fantasy world we live in a world were there is truth and love. And if you guys dont believe in miracles then you guys dont believe in yourself because wen we open our eyes everymorning thats just a miracle itself cuz if God wanted to he could of killed us right then and there but because he has mercy upon our lives he didnt. I think you guys are just a group of bored people that have nothing better to do then just try to find faults in the bible in what ur really doing is confusing urself may God Bless you guys and may he may have alot of mercy upon u!!
Wow! With this level of coherency in her thoughts I can see why she believes in such irrationalities. It’d be like trying to achieve the proper answer on a calculus exam with an electric storm raging through your cerebellum. Just reading it gives me shooting pains in the skull.
You right Ms. Navarro, the world would be a better place if we all simply sacrificed a goat to the bloody hand of the lord of peace and rang our prayer bells to scare away demons. How ignorant of me to not see these obvious solutions. Darwin curse my foolishness!
As usual Daz struck first and hardest.
The lack of grammar, spelling ability, and thought put into comments like this does point to the level of education needed to blindly believe such things, doesn’t it. I mean, okay we all make typos but not four-hundred word long ones!
Cant see air? Go outside on a windy day?
The ‘created by monkeys’ thing:
We are a type of chimp (an ape, not a monkey), alongside the bonobo and the common chimpanzee. We share a common ancestor with both. That ancestor was not a chimpanzee or a bonobo, it was the ‘grandfather-species’ and we three are the next-generation ‘cousins.’ To ask why there are still monkeys, or apes, around today is as ridiculous as asking why your cousin exists.
For a depiction of your supposed god’s mercy, please see ‘The Flood’ and the tenth plague of Egypt.
To see how ‘ignorant and immature’ scepticism makes us, please consult any modern book of science, or the US constitution.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha omg seriously to consider yourself an animal is PATHETIC!!!!! If you want to consider yourself an ape monkey bear lion snake dog!!!! then be my guess!!! But thats not what I am i know that im a creation of God not no dang monkey! and the typos that i made in my other writing has nothing to do with this! The sacrifce of animals at that time was a symbolisim of asking for forgiveness but that stopped after jesus christ came down to die on the cross for me and for you even if u dnt want to believe it and u tell me to read the scientific books how about u read them first because i guess u skipped the pages where it said that DARWIN HIMSELF BEFORE HE DIED REALIZED THAT HE WAS WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the fact that you write as as you do and consider yourself above the animal kingdom. You react with pure emotion and little rational thought bragging about how superior you are to the animals. If it weren’t for people who thought outside the box and threw superstition to the side, you’d still be at their level. Science has brought you up, yet you’d tear it down for a fairy tale about an evil sorcerer and his boy.
The Darwin story was made up by one of the liars for Jesus of the time. It was widely refuted by everyone who was actually there. The story isn’t in the science books because like the Tooth Fairy and the Holy Spirit, it is fictional.
Why does god need a symbolic sacrifice to forgive us for being how he created us? In you story God created us screwed up and then enjoys whipping us when we exhibit the same trait he instilled. Nice.
Bad God! Bad!
I love how ignorance is so high with the religious. Now this Darwin story you have been told is false and if you go to AIG, answersingenesis, website you will find the truth actually. I know all the other readers here will be shocked but they do say that this is a false claim. You are probably thinking that the site I am telling you about is an atheist site but I am sad to report it is a pathetic creationist site many like you use to push your false beliefs.
Why are you afraid of the truth? We are animals. Look at how those that believe we aren’t animals treat those that disagree with them. They support torture but are afraid to allow themselves be tortured. Do they have something they are hiding from us?
“‘And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head.”—Terry Pratchett. Do you have a rational argument or maybe you just like to shout?
Sorry, I gave you a considered answer before and all you do is call me pathetic.
Go Away.
Grow Up.
Read some real books.
Learn to debate.
Then come back.
God does have mercy if you really read the stories of the plague and the flood God gave them alooooooooot of chances to repent but since they were hard headed and they wanted to keep sinning and God was fed up he had to send them a consequence for example i dnt know if u have kids but if u do its like wen u tell them not to do something and they keep doing it and doing it over and over obviously as a parent ur going to have to give them a punishment unless ur the type that lets their kid do whatever they want!
Did you actually read this story. Sure he gave them chances and the Pharaoh repented, but then God made the Pharaoh stubborn or obstinate or obdurate and he changed his mind. Nine different times God interfered with his repentance and made him refuse to let the Hebrews go. The God killed all the first born as a punishment for the Pharaoh not doing what God wouldn’t let him do.
Explain that please.
The parent example is great. I have a group of kids and when they aren’t doing what I want them to do even when I don’t allow them to do what I am demanding, I just kill them. Your God seems to be a bit of a bastard, don’t you think. Dead people don’t learn lessons. Unless you’re the kind who just kills kids when they don’t do what you want. Hmmm.
I suggest that you actually read Exodus and not just the Picture book version. It’s all there. God made Pharaoh stubborn. God wanted him to fail. He wanted to kill those kids.
I completely agree with your reply to her. I doubt she will accept that she is wrong but at least she will know the truth.
She will hear the truth but she won’t know it. The Force of Ignorance is strong in this one. I’m actually sure she hasn’t read a single paragraph here. Thanks for your support Baconsbud.
Blimey, I only closed me mail for half an hour …
“…we all make typos but not four-hundred word long ones.”
Crikey–I’m going to have to start reading BABS on the toilet so’s not to have an accident…:)
I myself have noticed that emails of that stripe not only misspell words, they spell them wrong the same way.
Do YEC’s have their own Spelling Primer now, in addition to the Creation Museum?
I particularly liked ‘be my guess’ for ‘be my guest.’ Mind you, she got the ‘u’ in, so there may be hope for her yet.
My Mum, whose spelling is atrocious, still has a pocket dictionary that she was given when she was in her teens. It still has my Granddad’s self-added subtitle just about visible on the cover. He named it ‘How is it spelt.’ It’s just a thought, but maybe we could start leaving them in fundamentalist churches. We could call them Gideon’s Dictionaries…
I knew I had this somewhere. Finally found it in a handily named document called ‘New text document(5308).txt or some such ridiculous name. Can’t remember where I got it from originally, but it tickled me enough to save it, and it seems kinda pertinent.
Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.
Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh
As soon as a mist ache is maid
it nose bee for two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rare lea ever wrong.
Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect awl the weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.
Thank Athena I wasn’t drinking anything while reading that.
“Gideon’s Dictionary”!!! I couldn’t even laugh out loud at that one ’cause the kids were sleeping in the next room–ahhhh! I think I pulled a muscle trying not to make any noise… I wish I’d thought of that–will definitely pass it on to my sister, though:) The “spell chequer”, too. That is classic–I can’t believe I’ve never run across that one. That one goes on to my sis *and* my mom.
Sorry to revisit this, but I found these, and just had to share…
http://www.forumspile.com/Spelling-Grammar_Time.gif
http://www.forumspile.com/Spelling-Blackboard.jpg
Christians need to ignore these who call themselves atheists. In truth those who proudly call themselves atheists are the confused part of humanity that are always in attack mode. Their greatest feature is their uncanny tendency to hate which makes them champions users of profanity.
I don’t see those who call themselves atheists as atheists. They love to be called an atheist.
I never call them atheists. I call them angry.
The best thing to do is ignore them.
The blog is a typical vent of an angry person.
Anyone who accuses God is not well in the head.
1: Great job of ignoring us there. By, erm, not ignoring us, but posting a self-important, ill-informed, opinionated, screed. Yep, great job.
2: Yep, I can’t speak for others but I’m damned angry. I’m angry at all the shit we have to put up with because you religious types can’t keep your noses out of our schools, our labs, our sex lives and our parliaments.
3: Who’s accusing your god? That’d be plain daft, seeing as it doesn’t exist. Might as well be mad at Garfield the cat. Your religion, however, does exist. See (2).
4: I don’t hate you. I consider you misinformed, probably gullible and certainly a self-righteous prig, but that earns you my pity, not my hate.
5: Have a nice day.
Susana,if you’d like to know what atheists are like, why don’t you ask us some questions? You know, instead of *telling* us what we’re like.