Archive for July 29th, 2010

Vaguely Illiterate Trolls – The State of a Christian Education.


Yesterday, the comment section of my post God makes Pharaoh Stubborn! or a Rationale for an Ass-Kicking had a bit of a gift left in it.  You know the kind of gift I mean, just like the ones dogs leave in your yard.  Now you could just follow the link and read it for yourselves but to make it easier and, of course, give me an additional opportunity for commentary, I’ll just quote the best parts.  Oddly, that particular post has attracted trolls before and now it nabbed another one.  I’m not sure why the rabid theists stumble across that one out of all the others.  Whether it’s prominent on one of the Google searches or not, I’m not sure we’ll ever find out.  At any rate  a certain Ms. Navarro left the following. As you will see, punctuation is not her strongest suit.

Hello I myself am a christians and ive been reading a few things that have been in this web site and it truly surprises how ignorant and immature we can be when it comes to religion. You guys mainly dont believe in God cuz u cant see him but now i ask you how can u believe in air if you cant see it?? maybe its cuz we can feel it the same way we can feel jesus in our own life. If you notice most of the stories that have happened in the bible are happening now in days in our time capsule. you questioned how can pharaoh have changed his mind so many times if jesus had done alot of miracles we have to remember he as well was a human and stubborn and as us make mistakes just like those people who kill and steal they know that what they are doing is worng but they still do it anyways until the consequence from God falls down on them like it did to pharaoh and his people. I dont understand why you guys love to pick and try to find in the bible things that dont make sense and yet let the stupid idea of evolution slide by of how we were created by monkeys. If that was true what happened with the rest of the monkeys in the world they wanted to stay as monkeys???? yeah i doubt it people now in days woory about the things that they shouldnt. Us christians dont live in a fantasy world we live in a world were there is truth and love. And if you guys dont believe in miracles then you guys dont believe in yourself because wen we open our eyes everymorning thats just a miracle itself cuz if God wanted to he could of killed us right then and there but because he has mercy upon our lives he didnt. I think you guys are just a group of bored people that have nothing better to do then just try to find faults in the bible in what ur really doing is confusing urself may God Bless you guys and may he may have alot of mercy upon u!!

I added the italics.  The rest of this veritable bastion of rational thought was all hers.  Um, We have a time capsule?  A random sentence generator could have come up with more legible prose.  Luckily, responses were quick in arriving from myself and others.  Faithful Daz struck first with that wicked keyboard of his with this.

Cant see air? Go outside on a windy day?

The ‘created by monkeys’ thing:

We are a type of chimp (an ape, not a monkey), alongside the bonobo and the common chimpanzee. We share a common ancestor with both. That ancestor was not a chimpanzee or a bonobo, it was the ‘grandfather-species’ and we three are the next-generation ‘cousins.’ To ask why there are still monkeys, or apes, around today is as ridiculous as asking why your cousin exists.

For a depiction of your supposed god’s mercy, please see ‘The Flood’ and the tenth plague of Egypt.

To see how ‘ignorant and immature’ scepticism makes us, please consult any modern book of science, or the US constitution.

I, myself, started off not as understanding as I should have been.  Normally, I don’t jump out with the big guns right away.  Usually, I fire a warning shot over their bow allowing them a chance to see reason, but something about this woman got on my nerves immediately.  She reminded me too much of conversations with my mother.  And of course, the two beers I had at The Walrus, a local pub right down the street, probably lessened my inhibitions somewhat, so  I wrote this.

Wow! With this level of coherency in her thoughts I can see why she believes in such irrationalities. It’d be like trying to achieve the proper answer on a calculus exam with an electric storm raging through your cerebellum. Just reading it gives me shooting pains in the skull.

You right Ms. Navarro, the world would be a better place if we all simply sacrificed a goat to the bloody hand of the lord of peace and rang our prayer bells to scare away demons. How ignorant of me to not see these obvious solutions. Darwin curse my foolishness!

Daz, Darwin bless his his hard little atheistic heart, then replied.

The lack of grammar, spelling ability, and thought put into comments like this does point to the level of education needed to blindly believe such things, doesn’t it. I mean, okay we all make typos but not four-hundred word long ones!

Well, at this time I thought Ms. Navarro had left the building of reason for good, not defeated but on to harass other logical and rational sites with her emotionally unpunctuated verbosity. Alas, no.  Another visit from our unlettered  troll was in our future.  It was destiny.  Two rapid messages were machine gunned towards us.  The first was as follows

hahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha ( Apparently, she found something amusing) omg seriously to consider yourself an animal is PATHETIC!!!!! If you want to consider yourself an ape monkey bear lion snake dog!!!! then be my guess!!! But thats not what I am i know that im a creation of God not no dang monkey! and the typos that i made in my other writing has nothing to do with this! The sacrifce of animals at that time was a symbolisim of asking for forgiveness but that stopped after jesus christ came down to die on the cross for me and for you even if u dnt want to believe it and u tell me to read the scientific books how about u read them first because i guess u skipped the pages where it said that DARWIN HIMSELF BEFORE HE DIED REALIZED THAT HE WAS WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, I know. Wow!  Never before has so little been said with so many misspelled words and uncapitalized letters.  The ignorance had formed an event horizon.  True thought simply was never going to escape this intellectual black hole.  But, I again responded, as anyone who knows me was sure I would. I can’t just give in to the chaos of belief.

And the fact that you write as as you do and consider yourself above the animal kingdom. You react with pure emotion and little rational thought bragging about how superior you are to the animals. If it weren’t for people who thought outside the box and threw superstition to the side, you’d still be at their level. Science has brought you up, yet you’d tear it down for a fairy tale about an evil sorcerer and his boy.

The Darwin story was made up by one of the liars for Jesus of the time. It was widely refuted by everyone who was actually there. The story isn’t in the science books because like the Tooth Fairy and the Holy Spirit, it is fictional.

Why does god need a symbolic sacrifice to forgive us for being how he created us? In you story God created us screwed up and then enjoys whipping us when we exhibit the same trait he instilled. Nice.

Bad God! Bad!

I know it’s not literature, but I was in a bit of a hurry.  Then Baconsbud jumped in.

I love how ignorance is so high with the religious. Now this Darwin story you have been told is false and if you go to AIG, answersingenesis, website you will find the truth actually. I know all the other readers here will be shocked but they do say that this is a false claim. You are probably thinking that the site I am telling you about is an atheist site but I am sad to report it is a pathetic creationist site many like you use to push your false beliefs.

Why are you afraid of the truth? We are animals. Look at how those that believe we aren’t animals treat those that disagree with them. They support torture but are afraid to allow themselves be tortured. Do they have something they are hiding from us?

Then Daz.

“‘And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head.”—Terry Pratchett. Do you have a rational argument or maybe you just like to shout?

Sorry, I gave you a considered answer before and all you do is call me pathetic.

Go Away.
Grow Up.
Read some real books.
Learn to debate.
Then come back.

Her third comment was marginally more intelligent, rising nearly to a fourth grade educational level. I suspect she had help.

God does have mercy if you really read the stories of the plague and the flood God gave them alooooooooot of chances to repent but since they were hard headed and they wanted to keep sinning and God was fed up he had to send them a consequence for example i dnt know if u have kids but if u do its like wen u tell them not to do something and they keep doing it and doing it over and over obviously as a parent ur going to have to give them a punishment unless ur the type that lets their kid do whatever they want!

Now Grant you the entire post she is commenting on is about how God made the Pharaoh stubborn and refused to allow him to let the Hebrews go.  So I had to remind her of that.

Did you actually read this story. Sure he gave them chances and the Pharaoh repented, but then God made the Pharaoh stubborn or obstinate or obdurate and he changed his mind. Nine different times God interfered with his repentance and made him refuse to let the Hebrews go. The God killed all the first born as a punishment for the Pharaoh not doing what God wouldn’t let him do.

Explain that please.

The parent example is great. I have a group of kids and when they aren’t doing what I want them to do even when I don’t allow them to do what I am demanding, I just kill them. Your God seems to be a bit of a bastard, don’t you think. Dead people don’t learn lessons. Unless you’re the kind who just kills kids when they don’t do what you want. Hmmm.

I suggest that you actually read Exodus and not just the Picture book version. It’s all there. God made Pharaoh stubborn. God wanted him to fail. He wanted to kill those kids.

Then Baconsbud.

I completely agree with your reply to her. I doubt she will accept that she is wrong but at least she will know the truth.

Then me.

She will hear the truth but she won’t know it. The Force of Ignorance is strong in this one. I’m actually sure she hasn’t read a single paragraph here.

I’m sure she considers herself a master of persuasion, a communicator of the truth, a pillar of clarity.   But really? WTF?    Is it any wonder with minds like this that theists believe what they do? With thoughts as confused as this clashing within their brains, I am truly surprised they don’t collapse into seizures.  Is this the true state of belief?  A confused and blurred sense of self struggling to keep their heads as far up their ass as possible?  Doesn’t it smell in there? Is this what a degree in theology gets you?

I guess my problem with this is the fact that not only do we let these people drive cars, we let them vote.  They actually help decide the course this country will take.  Wow!  Our doom is nigh, and its name is ignorance. Or Jesus!

I almost hope that their rapture is real and soon.  With that filtering out of the dross of humanity, we may actually stand a chance.

Book Review — Disproving Christianity. Refuting the World’s Most followed Religion


Don't you just love the cover?

For some time now, I’ve wanted to start a book review section of BABS.  Science and skeptical based books have been quite important in my life and have opened me to new ideas, so I feel a strong need to share with you the best of these books. Believe it or not, the difficult part has been deciding what book to review first.  Maybe it was only my inherent procrastination but I wanted something very recent and close to the BABS subject line to start it out, so I’ve been scanning through Amazon and the Barnes and Noble shelves looking for the perfect book for a starter review.  Months passed and I found nothing.   Then lo and behold, I get an email regarding a soon to be published refutation of Christian beliefs using their own Bible against them, “Disproving Christianity, Refuting the World’s Most Followed Religion” by David G. McAfee.  Well, hey! Sometimes good shit just drops right into your lap.  Do you know what they call this?  Chance!  Pure random chance!

To begin, this is not a book to disprove the existence of God, rather this is, capturing my own heart, a book that wades right in and proves the inconsistency of the Christian religion by using the Bible as the primary weapon against Faith. David McAfee makes no bones about it.  He is out to battle that popularly rising Christian tide, Biblical literalism, that is a view that the entire Bible must be taken literally and is completely infallible.  As any regular reader of this site is aware, I firmly believe that Biblical literalism is a joke, but  Mr. McAfee is out to prove it concisely and systematically. Since believers swear it’s infallible, all you should have to do is prove just a single section false and it shatters the whole concept.  If they insist on putting all their eggs in a single tattered and duct taped basket, it should only take a small tear to bring them crashing to the ground.  McAfee goes further and by the end of the book, he has gnawed holes large and small throughout the basket.  In fact, by the end of the last argument there isn’t a basket left, only a few believers left juggling the rotten eggs of their beliefs.

This is a book that really should come in a pocket edition, because you may want to carry it with you.  It is, however, available on the Kindle and therefore can be carried on any ipod touch or iphone, though it’s none too big even in its print edition. Disproving Christianity lays out a variety of arguments where a literal interpretation of the Bible is either not what today’s Christians follow or where the Biblical writings are contradictory with themselves.  McAfee hammers these arguments home with the technique of a master debater, laying out the Christian view and then laying out Biblical passages that prove it incorrect or giving multiple examples of where the Bible says one thing then later says, if not the direct opposite, often something in another direction entirely. Many different points are driven home, calmly and rationally.  Although, most arguments are not new and shiny (how many arguments ever are), there are several that I was not familiar with, and all points are cited chapter and verse.  Disproving Christianity is a book based on reason not emotion.  There are no jokes or puns, nothing funny at all. I do believe that Mr. McAfee should consider embracing the concept of humor as a tool of instruction, but even with its lack the writing is interesting and far easier to read than Stenger.  (I like Stenger, but trying to read his books is like trying to swallow horse pills without water.)

If I have a complaint about Disproving Christianity, it’d be the very conciseness I talked about earlier.  Opinions will vary, and anyone familiar with this site knows I have difficulty shutting the hell up, but even so, sometimes arguments can be made too brief.  There are a few sections that could use a bit more illustration, a few more examples or even just a bit more rambling on.  Often, clarity comes with repetition, and this book in its clean and mean form has little of that. In lieu of that, I suggest doing what I did and read it twice.  Make your own repetition and think about what this book is pointing out. There is little doubt that it would be worthwhile.

Overall, this book would be a valuable addition to any skeptical library, particularly for an atheist new to his or her skepticism.  These short little arguments will give you the strength and tools you will need to fight battles internal and external.  It will not be the only tool you need, but will add to your arsenal.  This plus selected books by Hitchens, Dawkins and Stenger can make a new skeptic understand that the doubts he or she has had for so long are quite legitimate. This book can help recovering theists on their road to recovery from that largest of all cults, Christianity.

I give it four out of five capital A’s  It’s available for purchase at Amazon here

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